In a spiritual world of quick fixes and vague emotion, is it crazy to believe there is still a place for insights based on simple, basic, theological understanding. I believe it is worth exploring.
Pages
▼
Monday, January 20, 2014
A Touch of Humor - Living in Harmony
Is there a way we can come together on forms of music? How should we deal with this issue?
Music is what attracts young people. Old folks simply need to let the music draw in younger folks in. From their the older folks can disciple and train the younger folks.
Our mother ship (big mega-church) has multiple services with different styles of music/songs. Our downtown satellite urban church has 5 services but all of them have music that attracts younger folks. And, unlike the mega-church, the song leaders are young themselves.
I have never been a part of a mega-church so I am not speaking from my own experience. But I do admit to having reservations here. It feels to much like sectioning a family off into separate groups. But I admit I do have a ready solution. Though I think widening our taste in music would be a good step. But this is admittedly hard to do.
My mega-church experience is one that seems to refute the idea of sectioning a family off. It is more like being part of a family that lives in different cities but holds to the same values of love and loyalty. Bad example but the best I can think of. :)
I think that the type of music and even the type of service is about what kind of local church we attend. The purpose of our mega-church is "To build a Christian community where non-religious and nominally religious people are becoming deeply committed Christians."
I cannot really speak to your experience. My own experience in much smaller churches is that such sectioning off tends to be divisive. But it may all depend on how it is done.
It was not my purpose to bring up the subject of large vs small churches. For me the ideal would be a number of smaller bodies united within a larger structure allowing for both unity and community. I do not know if your church has this, but I have never been part of a church I felt really accomplished it. As it is both forms alone have their pros and cons and what you mentioned is certainly a potential problem with a small church.
But even small churches can still section themselves off into various factions based on issues like music and that can be at least in my experience very divisive. But maybe I have not seen it handled well.
The great thing about our mega church is how the pastors of the satellite churches do not have to prepare a sermon each week. Occasionally they do but mainly they work as she pop herds. I like that.
Having worked on a church staff and been involved with pastors I always struggled with how much time pastors would spend on their sermons. This to me is the struggle that many small churches deal with. The unseen role of shepherd is often sacrificed on the altar of public ministry.
You may indeed be right on that, but finding a solution is not easy. All churches are not mega-churches and all mega-church are not interested in starting satellite churches.
The church I am in is currently involved in an experiment of joining in a network with a larger church with the idea of producing a network of churches that share pastors and resources in order to produce the situation you described of freeing pastors up to pastor. Whether this works or is a good model for others I cannot say. We are still in the beginning stages and I do not know how it will work out.
Beyond that making more use of leaders other than the pastor who can function as unpaid pastors may be a good solution.
But I am far from claiming to know the best answer for everyone.
In my experience pastors often choose public ministry (i.e. teaching and programs) over private ministry (i.e. counseling, visitation, small groups, etc.). Some are not all that attracted to private ministry so it would not help to free them up.
Attracting the right people to pastoral work is not easy and the past decades of televangelists had not helped. Many are drawn to ministry to be teachers instead of shepherds. The seduction of the pulpit and public ministry is great.
I do not want to put down teaching as that is my chief gift. But I am convinced we need both teachers and pastors (whether in the same person or a team working together) and not just one or the other. What I really would like to eliminate is the approach to ministry that is all fancy programs and very little substance.
And I agree in hoping that the lack of pastoral ministry will change one day.
Do you find it strange how one gift (teaching) seems to have been exalted in the church over others? Isn't it odd that so much time is spent by the clergy to prepare for 30 minutes on Sunday morning? How can this be a good use of a pastors time? My view is that churches should think outside of the box with regard to what they do on Sunday mornings. But I may have just gone from commenting to meddling? :)
Since we have gone to meddling, much of the teaching that goes on Sunday, in my opinion isn't. A lot of it is vague exhortation, guilt trips and pop psychology. What I would like to see is a time for serious teaching, perhaps not on Sunday morning where there is time for discussion and asking questions and which perhaps rotates in who teaches it so one person is not overburdened.
Then it might be possible to exercise more gifts on Sunday morning though I am not sure exactly what that would look like.
Music is what attracts young people. Old folks simply need to let the music draw in younger folks in. From their the older folks can disciple and train the younger folks.
ReplyDeleteThat's a interesting idea. But how do we get the older folks to accept it?
DeleteSounds like a job for church leaders. :)
DeleteOur mother ship (big mega-church) has multiple services with different styles of music/songs. Our downtown satellite urban church has 5 services but all of them have music that attracts younger folks. And, unlike the mega-church, the song leaders are young themselves.
I have never been a part of a mega-church so I am not speaking from my own experience. But I do admit to having reservations here. It feels to much like sectioning a family off into separate groups. But I admit I do have a ready solution. Though I think widening our taste in music would be a good step. But this is admittedly hard to do.
DeleteMy mega-church experience is one that seems to refute the idea of sectioning a family off. It is more like being part of a family that lives in different cities but holds to the same values of love and loyalty. Bad example but the best I can think of. :)
DeleteI think that the type of music and even the type of service is about what kind of local church we attend. The purpose of our mega-church is "To build a Christian community where non-religious and nominally religious people are becoming deeply committed Christians."
I cannot really speak to your experience. My own experience in much smaller churches is that such sectioning off tends to be divisive. But it may all depend on how it is done.
DeleteIsn't a small church an example of a group of people who have sectioned themselves off from the Body of Christ?
DeleteIt was not my purpose to bring up the subject of large vs small churches. For me the ideal would be a number of smaller bodies united within a larger structure allowing for both unity and community. I do not know if your church has this, but I have never been part of a church I felt really accomplished it. As it is both forms alone have their pros and cons and what you mentioned is certainly a potential problem with a small church.
DeleteBut even small churches can still section themselves off into various factions based on issues like music and that can be at least in my experience very divisive. But maybe I have not seen it handled well.
The great thing about our mega church is how the pastors of the satellite churches do not have to prepare a sermon each week. Occasionally they do but mainly they work as she pop herds. I like that.
DeleteShepherds
DeleteI cannot really comment on your church's system having never seen it in action. But I do agree we need pastors who are shepherds.
ReplyDeleteHaving worked on a church staff and been involved with pastors I always struggled with how much time pastors would spend on their sermons. This to me is the struggle that many small churches deal with. The unseen role of shepherd is often sacrificed on the altar of public ministry.
DeleteYou may indeed be right on that, but finding a solution is not easy. All churches are not mega-churches and all mega-church are not interested in starting satellite churches.
ReplyDeleteThe church I am in is currently involved in an experiment of joining in a network with a larger church with the idea of producing a network of churches that share pastors and resources in order to produce the situation you described of freeing pastors up to pastor. Whether this works or is a good model for others I cannot say. We are still in the beginning stages and I do not know how it will work out.
Beyond that making more use of leaders other than the pastor who can function as unpaid pastors may be a good solution.
But I am far from claiming to know the best answer for everyone.
" freeing pastors up to pastor"
DeleteIn my experience pastors often choose public ministry (i.e. teaching and programs) over private ministry (i.e. counseling, visitation, small groups, etc.). Some are not all that attracted to private ministry so it would not help to free them up.
Attracting the right people to pastoral work is not easy and the past decades of televangelists had not helped. Many are drawn to ministry to be teachers instead of shepherds. The seduction of the pulpit and public ministry is great.
But perhaps this will one day change?
I do not want to put down teaching as that is my chief gift. But I am convinced we need both teachers and pastors (whether in the same person or a team working together) and not just one or the other. What I really would like to eliminate is the approach to ministry that is all fancy programs and very little substance.
DeleteAnd I agree in hoping that the lack of pastoral ministry will change one day.
Do you find it strange how one gift (teaching) seems to have been exalted in the church over others? Isn't it odd that so much time is spent by the clergy to prepare for 30 minutes on Sunday morning? How can this be a good use of a pastors time? My view is that churches should think outside of the box with regard to what they do on Sunday mornings. But I may have just gone from commenting to meddling? :)
DeleteSince we have gone to meddling, much of the teaching that goes on Sunday, in my opinion isn't. A lot of it is vague exhortation, guilt trips and pop psychology. What I would like to see is a time for serious teaching, perhaps not on Sunday morning where there is time for discussion and asking questions and which perhaps rotates in who teaches it so one person is not overburdened.
ReplyDeleteThen it might be possible to exercise more gifts on Sunday morning though I am not sure exactly what that would look like.
It would be interesting to imagine a service where teachers and singers are not dominant.
DeleteIt does sound interesting. I am not real clear what it would look like. But it definitely sounds interesting.
ReplyDelete