Pages

▼

Saturday, July 18, 2015

Old Erich Proverb - Determination

Ultimately it is not our determination and gritting our teeth but our God that makes the difference.
at

8 comments:

  1. kc bobJuly 19, 2015 at 9:13 AM

    Not sure that I am understanding your point Mike. Why do you think we are challenged to persevere/endure in places like James 1:12 and Matthew 24:13?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mike Erich the Mad TheologianJuly 19, 2015 at 6:27 PM

      I would see the issue as being what we are trusting in whether God or our own will power. I am not against preserving it is the basis of it I am concerned about.

      Delete
  2. kc bobJuly 20, 2015 at 6:12 AM

    Do you not see perseverance as a fruit of the spirit? Is not endurance simply an evidence of having God in our lives? Hebrews 12:1-2 seems to support this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mike Erich the Mad TheologianJuly 20, 2015 at 8:38 PM

      I certainly believe perseverance is a fruit of the Spirit, but I think there is a difference between the perseverance the Spirit produces and the kind we drum up. One is a result of trust in God, the other the result of trust in our own will-power.

      Delete
    2. kc bobJuly 21, 2015 at 5:20 AM

      I see perseverance more as a cooperation with the Spirit. There are things that God simply does not do for us. He/she who endures to the end will be saved. Endurance is simply an evidence of knowing God and having the Spirit in our lives. One might call it holy determination or divine teeth gritting. ツ

      Delete
    3. Mike Erich the Mad TheologianJuly 21, 2015 at 7:21 PM

      I am not sure that we are not talking at cross purposes and talking about different things. : )

      I never meant that growth in Christ was automatic and did not require our participation or our choice. Rather I am claiming that God is the prime motive force in bringing this about and we should not think we can bring this about alone without God's help of the chief initiative lies with us.

      The other thing involved here, which has nothing to do with what I was really intending to speak to in the original proverb is the Calvinist teaching on perseverance. The issue here in my understanding is not that we do not choose, but the God (yes, in way beyond human understanding, you knew I was going to say that right? : ) ) is in control of all things and determines who will persevere. But that does not mean there is no choice involved on our part.

      Delete
  3. kc bobJuly 22, 2015 at 4:02 PM

    I get that. My view (as you know) is that perseverance involves the human choice to cooperate with the Holy Spirit. In a sense it is all about knowing, and being known by, God.

    ReplyDelete