Monday, June 16, 2014

A Touch of Humor - Reflection

Do churches make too big a point of dividing people into groups? How might this be avoided?
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7 comments:

  1. kc bobJune 22, 2014 at 11:27 AM

    United Methodists (I am one by affiliation but not one in dogma) are sharply divided over the marriage and ordination of gay members. Our pastor quoted John Wesley in response saying:

    "Though we cannot think alike, may we not love alike? May we not be of one heart, though we are not of one opinion? Without all doubt, we may."

    I think that the quote answers your question.

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    1. Mike Erich the Mad TheologianJune 23, 2014 at 6:49 PM

      That is a good quote. I can go into the question of ordaining homosexual if you want me to, but that is a whole other subject.

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  2. kc bobJune 24, 2014 at 5:57 AM

    I am a retired ordained pastor. My ordination was more about the law than about ministry as it gave me a break on my taxes and permitted me to marry people. It also gave me a title in the church I served. But please, do not call me Pastor Bob. :)

    The work of the ministry is done mainly by straight and gay unordained people. So I am not really all that interested in who is ordained or not. Ordination seems to separate those who minister calling some clergy and others laity. Not that people do not loved to be called by their gifts.

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    1. Mike Erich the Mad TheologianJune 24, 2014 at 5:32 PM

      I do not believe ordination, in this sense, is a New Testament concept. The words that are translated this way merely mean put or place in a particular office. There is the act of laying on of hands but it has many different meanings and does not pertain to a specific office or status. (I have no problem with laying hands on Sunday School teachers or nursery workers to pray for them as they take up their ministries.) There is a specific ceremony in the Old Testament for induction of the priests into their office, but I do not believe it is relevant today. So I agree that whether someone is ordained is not the important thing. We are all part of the body of Christ.

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  3. Mike Erich the Mad TheologianJune 24, 2014 at 8:02 PM

    If you want to deal with the whole question of homosexuality and whether it is good, bad or indifferent we can. But I agree the idea of ordination is a red herring.

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    1. kc bobJune 25, 2014 at 6:56 AM

      I think that my inclusion of gays in my first comment was to speak to your original question of how we might avoid dividing people into groups. The Pharisees ostracized those viewed as "sinners". Many churches do similar things with gay folks. That was my point.

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    2. kc bobJune 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM

      But if you want to read about how the UMC denom is dealing with the gay issue you can read a few posts from my pastor:

      ++ A Way Forward for a United Methodism?

      ++ A Response to Rob Renfroe's Open Letter

      I admire the way that Adam is finding a way to move forward in a way that keeps the Body of Christ together.

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